Thank you to everyone who tuned into my first Substack live with Justin Barker! I had a blast talking to him about all things animal advocacy, passion, and obsession.
Here is the transcript of the interview:
Krista: We are joined today by Justin Barker—San Francisco-based TV producer, animal activist, and author of the book Bear Boy. Justin, I want to start with a correction. I originally thought you found your passion at 14, but it was actually 12. Tell us how that started.
Justin: It started when I was 12 years old. It was summertime, and my dad asked what I was going to do with my break. I told him I was going to stay home, watch Nickelodeon, and eat large bowls of cereal. He told me, “Actually, you’re not.”
Almost by chance, I found a used book about animal rights. I read a chapter on factory farming and went vegetarian right there in the bookstore. When I got home, I read the chapter on captivity—how animals that naturally travel long distances are impacted by small cages. I was totally moved by it. I told my dad I wouldn’t be on the couch; I needed him to take me to the Sacramento Zoo every day. I started investigating, making friends with keepers who fed me information, and it became an obsession that has lasted 30 years.
Krista: Did you love animals specifically when you were younger, or was it that one book that triggered everything?
Justin: I was always into Jane Goodall and environmental magazines, but that book was the pivot. It moved me from just thinking or hoping for change to having an actionable guide. It taught me that even as a young person, I could do something.
Krista: I actually did the same thing! At six years old, I declared to my family I’d be a vegetarian because I loved animals. But your story goes further. You started a full-time obsession with saving two bears, Brutus and Ursula. Was that your first experience with total preoccupation?
Justin: Absolutely. It was the first time in my life I had total “blinders on” obsession. I started writing letters to the AZA (the accrediting body for zoos), and my campaign actually led to front-page stories about animal neglect. It got so big that the zoo director called me personally and threatened to sue me.
Krista: Did she know you were only 12?
Justin: She knew exactly how old I was! My parents were terrified—they told me, “She’s not going to sue you; she’s going to sue us. You’re done.” But a week later, I got a letter from a woman about two bears, Brutus and Ursula, living in a cage on a creek bed that flooded. The city told me, “Those bears were born in that cage, and they’re going to die in that cage.” That was my rallying moment. I spent three years raising a quarter-million dollars to get them to a sanctuary.
Krista: Do you feel there’s a difference between passion and obsession? And where does “calling” fit in?
Justin: It definitely felt like a calling. I felt like a vehicle for something bigger than myself. At the time, I’d call it obsession. It was twofold: the mission to relocate the bears, and the storytelling around the impact of captivity. I wanted people to look at an animal in a cage and realize, “This is not the move.”
Krista: I’ve interviewed many passionate people, and one thing that stands out is the community that builds around a cause. Was it isolating to be that focused at 13?
Justin: It was actually life-changing because I was a lonely, isolated kid before the bears. I started networking with adult activists across the country. They became my mentors and my community. Eventually, when the story went national, I became known at school as “Bear Boy.” It built the confidence I needed to talk to adults and find my people.
Krista: What happened after the bears were moved? Did you feel a void?
Justin: The bears were moved right as I was starting my senior year of high school. I took a pause. I moved to London at 18 and focused on being a young person. But the early 2000s were a rude awakening. Between the Afghan war and global suffering, I felt like I couldn’t justify being an “animal activist” when so many humans were being harmed. I didn’t feel I had the “right” to talk about animal rights for a long time.
Krista: How did you find your way back?
Justin: In my late twenties, I did a month-long meditation retreat. On the last day, we did a “death meditation.” The prompt was: You have 12 hours to live. What do you regret? I started sobbing because I realized I had never helped another zoo animal. I felt like I had reached the end of my life and only helped Brutus and Ursula. Within days, I knew I had to write the book. It took me 10 years to finish Bear Boy, but it was my resurgence.
Krista: People think passion is all “highs,” but it involves a lot of struggle. What are your “lows” right now?
Justin: Right now, I’m working on transitioning the San Francisco Zoo into an eco-park through a project called SF Zoo Watch. That means going to City Hall and sitting in rooms with hostile people who call me names or attack me online. Every month, walking into those meetings, my heart is racing. I am so uncomfortable.
Krista: How do you push through that?
Justin: I have a ritual: I blast Taylor Swift’s “Look What You Made Me Do” before I walk in. But ultimately, it’s the “Why.” I’m anchored to the mission for the animals. Without that anchor, I couldn’t muster the energy to walk into a room of people who have disdain for me.
Krista: Any advice for someone who hasn’t found their passion yet?
Justin: Try a death meditation. Ask yourself, “If I were at the end of my life, what would I regret not doing?” Also, look at your most painful moments. Often, the things that cause us the most pain are flags for our most deeply held beliefs. Explore the realms of pain and death; they are powerful tools for discovery.
